Shapes and Sizes of Cigars, is one better than Another? 108

Swell AI Transcript: Sizes and ShapesFinalmp3.mp3

00:00 Devin Brackett Hello and welcome. One more time, one more time.

00:10 Devin Brackett That messed me up. I wasn't ready for that. Right. Those man.

00:14 Devin Brackett Okay. All right. Five, four, three.

00:18 Gary Conger What's better than smoking a cigar in the middle of skin walker ranch on top of the Mesa smoking. Episode.

00:44 Devin Brackett Hello everybody. And welcome back to another episode of smoking underground where we, uh, smoke cigars, talk about a finer point of the topic and, uh, talk nonsense. Well, not nonsense, but good stuff. Uh, I'm Devon.

00:59 John Viviani We talked a whole bunch of nonsense before the show saved you guys. 40 minutes of your lives. I'm joined today by Gary and John. Oh, we're supposed to talk now. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's called smart ass comment on what's up today.

01:20 Devin Brackett You guys are killing me. Try to put on a good show here. The listening audience is just going to sit there. You need to leave that silence in there for a second. So they all look at their phones and go, did the podcast just end? What happened?

01:36 John Viviani It's really annoying. Yes. It does that. They either have a commercial at the very end and you know, it's over. It just ends. It drives me crazy.

01:44 Devin Brackett I'm listening to a podcast and there'll be this moment of silence while they're like thinking or something and you're like, y'all that moment of silence makes people go, Oh, I guess it's over. And they stopped paying attention. Like say something, make a sound, something anyways. Welcome back to the madness today on the show. Spectacularly glorious smoking underground bump bump bump. We are smoking the Romeo Ulieta 1875 Nicaragua. And yes, I use an accent to pronounce that like a D.Va. Good.

02:18 John Viviani You mean a Devon bag?

02:20 Devin Brackett Yep. That was good. You got me on that one. That was good. That was good.

02:24 John Viviani Boy, I just keep getting you all the time here. I should probably be doing rim shot.

02:27 Devin Brackett You do rims. You should do rim shots. There it is. There it is. Drop it now. Reb shots. Oh my God. So this cigar is a particularly interesting one. The tasting notes on it are kind of interesting, I would say, because it talks about it being like sweet and earthy and dry grass and you can kind of get that off of it. I'll be honest with you. You really can because it starts out with a nice toast. And I'll be honest with you, Gary, John, the toast has become one of my favorite things to do is to just light toast the cigar and then just let the fumes, let the smoke just kind of simmer out and just enjoy the taste and the smell of that toast. And then I get into the actual cigar. I have, I have come to a new level of passion in my cigar smoking to see what the smell of toasts are for every cigar I smoke now.

03:28 Devin Brackett I don't know if you have that same kind of recollection, but no, no, but the, but cool. Yeah, that's all right.

03:35 Devin Brackett Ain't nothing wrong with that. Yeah. You just, you just light the end of it and then you go just get it and just, and just wave it around like a wand in front of your nose and just enjoy the toast.

03:43 Devin Brackett Hey man, that's, that's, that's fantastic. Well, to me that's the same as having a nose on a wine or a good drinker or G as you will know. Exactly. Exactly.

03:54 Devin Brackett And yeah, yeah, man. Yeah. For everybody listening out there today, I am pairing this with two different libations that I've kept secret from these two jabronis because one of them is just ridiculous. And the other one is just, it's a, it's a good one. So the two are pairing with you. Ready, Gary? I'm ready, baby. We've got the Jura single malt Scotch whiskey aged 12 years.

04:19 Devin Brackett Jura 12 years. Jura.

04:21 Devin Brackett It's a very smooth, you know, it's a matured in America, white oak, ex bourbon barrels with an aged or low. So Sherry cask finish, yada, yada, yada, yada.

04:33 Devin Brackett They go, is that what you're smoking right now? Is that what you're doing right now? Right this moment? That's what I'm drinking right now. Yeah, that's it. Right now. Right now. Got you. Gotcha.

04:42 Devin Brackett So I wanted to start with that one because it's smooth because the next one, which I'll go ahead and tell you about, it's kind of a dessert whiskey. Yeah. And it's very sweet, but all right, everybody, this, I finally found this one. I bought it about six months ago in a little mini bottle, but I finally found the full bottle and it's the artworks hilarious and the name is hilarious. It's called shanky's whip.

05:11 Devin Brackett Shakey's whip. I love it. I love the freaking name. I love the cover of the bottle is a guy in a chariot and he's got as the, an ostrich pulling it and he's whipping it and it's a black, smooth Irish whiskey. That is so cool. Well, it's hilarious. I'm a big fan of the particular, uh, whiskey, um, in a sense of the name, uh, even the shape of the bottle. And I'm sure that the whiskey is very good itself, but I'm a big fan of the name. Pig whistle. Yeah. I love that.

05:47 Devin Brackett That one's a good one too. Is it really very good? Yeah. It's, it's a pretty decent one. I'd have to say it's probably better than this one. This one is not in the same class.

05:55 Devin Brackett Is it not? Wow.

05:57 Devin Brackett No, it's definitely in a lower class. This is not, this is not your good whiskey. This is a, oh, it's nice and sweet and it'll get you, it'll get you tipsy. It's not, it's not Jura. It's not McCallan. It's nowhere in that level. So I was saying it's really silly. Gary, can you do me a favor and tell us about the 1875? Tell us, tell us all about it. 1875.

06:19 Devin Brackett Of course it's a Nicaraguan. Of course the Romeo Giulietta, uh, normally known as Indonesian rapper has changed a little bit. Normally the Indonesian rapper and of course, Dominican binder filler. In this particular case, uh, Romeo and Juliet, Juliet stepped out a while back and started doing stuff in Nicaragua. Now there's nothing wrong with that. You know, it was made in the placid see a factory and it's, um, it's about time for Romeo and Juliet to step out and did that. You know, of course this has been out for a while, so it's not, not that, not that. Yeah. The band has also changed a little bit too. They went from the, uh, they were from the gold and white and red band, uh, more of an orange. What would you say it is? Yeah. An orange yellow.

07:04 Devin Brackett Um, it's kind of a pumpkin orange. Pumpkin orange. Yeah. That'd be the West way to say it. Cause it's got a little bit of yellow tents in it. Um, as opposed to like a sunset orange. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I kind of like to change, but I'll, I'll, I'll be honest with everybody out here. Orange is my favorite color. So I'm particularly fond of this one. Yeah. It's, it's, it looks nicer. It pops a little bit more, especially with the band. Uh, cause it's a, you know, it's a medium full flavored cigar. So the band has a nice kind of mellow brown to it. It's not a dark brown and it's not a super light brown. It's very mellow.

07:39 Devin Brackett Yeah. It's a, it's a nice Colorado. It actually has a little bit of a, well, it's a little bit lighter than the Indonesian original that, uh, the 1875 did. Right. Uh, and that's okay. That's all right. But, uh, but yeah, I, I thoroughly enjoy it, man. I'm digging it myself. I really, I really like it. We got the robusto size. So that's your, that's your four and a half or, uh, I think it's four and a half or five, one of the two, four and a half. Uh, and yeah, it's a five inch, five inch robusto. And to me, it's got a lot more flavor to it, which I like in this particular cigar. I like it in the robusto because it's got a nice little flavor pop, but it's not overwhelming. Right. And I liked the way that Romeo and Julie did that. I really do. I like, uh, I liked the way they sort of took this and, and made it as smooth as you would on their, uh, on the regular line. But in this particular case here, uh, they didn't put a powerhouse to it. They, they kept it smooth and they're artistic for that. They really are. Yeah. So all of us did great on this. I think they did a fantastic job on that right there. I get the seven out of 10. I ain't bad. Yeah.

08:53 Devin Brackett I'd agree with that. I got the larger one before and I've smoked that one before and I got

08:57 Devin Brackett larger meaning. Are you talking about the Gordo or are you talking about Churchill, buddy?

09:01 Devin Brackett No, no, no more like, uh, I think it's the Toro size. The six inch. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. Yeah. The longer I should say. And I'll have to agree with you. The robusto is probably the better. I think it's the perfect size. And you know how we've talked about this on the show before in that they make a cigar and flavor specifically for a certain diameter and length, and then they make that one, they perfect it. And then they make different links and gauges later to kind of have different flavors or different, uh, links of time for other people.

09:36 Devin Brackett But I really think the robusto in this one is the perfect size for the 1875. I really do. I think it, John, have you smoked this one?

09:44 John Viviani Uh, yes, I have. Um, I found it really interesting. And the fact Placencia makes, makes a cigar for Romeo and Julieta. I almost look at it as because the price point, we're smoking the bully tonight, a five by 50. It's like a $10 Placencia. Don't get me wrong. It's not replacing your $30 octagonal cigar, but it's an interesting way to get into the same flavor notes and same construction quality in that, even though it's a different band on it, I want to say, I'm trying to think of where, where my comparison would be, there's an automotive comparison in here somewhere.

10:21 Devin Brackett And I wish you'd make it to, but wait, John's going to come up with an automotive comparison.

10:25 Devin Brackett What I do automotive comparisons all of the time. And I'm an IT that's my, that's my full-time job. And if everybody, anybody wants a comparison of whatever it is, and I tell you, I'll make an automotive comparison. I will every time I will.

10:40 Devin Brackett Sure. Well, it's true. Oh yeah. That's true. Yes, sir. Cause everybody, everybody has automotive stuff.

10:46 Devin Brackett Everybody does. Yeah. Everybody knows how to drive, knows what a wheel is.

10:51 John Viviani I'd like to meet your friends that know how to drive because I'm on the road quite a lot and nobody knows how to drive.

10:58 Devin Brackett I forgot. Yeah. You live on 280. My bad. I'm the one, I'm the one in the country.

11:03 Devin Brackett I've been up your way this week. Have you? Okay. Nice. All right. The topic for tonight is sizes and shapes, you know, cigar sizes and all that kind of stuff, which we've already alluded to this one that we're smoking is the tour or the robusto, the one that a lot of people, I guess that would be a good question for both of you in dealing with customers and everyday people. When somebody thinks of a cigar who doesn't really smoke, what size and or shape do you think that comes to their mind first when they start telling you

11:40 John Viviani about cigars, the Toro a six inch by about 56 ring gauge, half moon end, nice tight straight cut opposite end or lighting end. Yeah. Uh, a Toro is what I always think of when it comes to a cigar. Occasionally you might think Churchill because of Winston Churchill and something long or, you know, but I think you get a little bit specific if you go on Winston Churchill or like a Toscano that, you know, it's not what Clint Eastwood smokes, but it reminds you really tight rolled kind of dry, narrow. Gotcha. Okay.

12:14 Devin Brackett I would say there's no right answer, but I would agree with you on that one. Cause the only one I would counter with not really counter, but is the bell of Koso shape because they get that nice tipped in and they're like, Oh, that's classic cigar cut the tip off. They think of the tip, cut the tip off.

12:31 Devin Brackett I've got a mixture of that right there, mainly because I got people come in that don't know anything about cigars and they want the biggest one that we've got. And you're going, okay. All right. Might be for Halloween. It might be for a skit, whatever else, you know, but, but as far as personally goes, it's going to have to be the Toro. Yeah. By all means. Yeah. Yeah.

12:52 Devin Brackett It'll be a Toro. Yeah. So if you've got a response, you know, feel free to shoot us an email with what you think the classic cigar shape is, what you think that is, send it to, you can go to smoking underground.com and you can see our links on there and you can email John about that and we'd love to hear about it. Continuing on. I wanted to start with not the classic cigar. I wanted to start with the one that I think gets the most hates, not the right word, but gets the most put down as the Lance arrow. That's where I wanted to start.

13:26 Devin Brackett Hmm. Interesting.

13:27 Devin Brackett Yeah. Yeah. What's your typical, uh, opinion about a Lance arrow? Cause it's so interesting because it's always something that you wouldn't expect to have as much flavor and it always does.

13:41 Devin Brackett Well, I mean, as far as myself goes, the stereotype to a Lance arrow, I think nowadays have changed. Um, I would agree with that. Used to be, yeah. It used to be Lance arrow was, was a, uh, first thing that comes to my mind whenever I see a Lance arrow or used to see a Lance arrow in that, that case was the, if you ever watched the older movies and you ever seen the cigarette holder that, uh, that the rich folks use the cigarette with it, you know, and of course there, I don't know whether they're smoking a Benson and hedges or whatever it is, but it seemed like it's about eight inches long to sticking out of that hole. That's the first thing that enters my mind on a Lance arrow was smoking one of those right there. Right. To me. And yeah, the, the aura of that has changed now because a lot of your connoisseurs are now going back to your Lance arrows and your Corona's because that's where your flavor bombs are. Right. That's where all of your, anything that is, has good amount of flavor, man, that's where you can get more out of it. Yeah. It's like the Tata Wai, Tata Wai, Pete Johnson Tata Wai is, uh, he, he used to do nothing but Churchill's and of course just the average sizes. And now of course he come out with the monster series, which a good bit of those are your regular sizes, but started concentrating a lot more on the Lance arrow and really wanted to bring that flavor profile of the front of the mark where of course you got Tom Mazuka. You know, Tom Mazuka is going, uh, you know, 70, 80, 90, you know, all of that right there in the larger engage. So your, your Lance arrows, I think now changed now to where if you see someone smoking a Lance arrow to be frank with you, I mean, the way I look at it, you see somebody smoking Lance arrow. They know a little bit about what they're talking about. You may want to, if you know a little bit about what you're talking about, you want to pull it, you may want to pull a chair up next to them there and say, which smoke and just watch them rattle, you know, watch them go. And so, I mean, that's that to me, that's, you know, that's the way I look at it because I love a good Lance arrow, a La Polina makes a Goldie, which is succulent. Those things are so good in the Lance arrow side.

16:03 Devin Brackett Yeah. You know, that made me think of Gary was, um, a row of 20, my, one of my favorite sticks Roger that for the life of me, I can't remember right now what the actual size is called, but I call it a box press Lance arrow and it's become one of my go-tos because it's actually a relatively quicker smoke, but it's still a full length, it's probably in the Toro size when it comes to the length of it, but it's small and it's box press. And that leads me into the next shape and size, which is anything box press versus Cuban box press, which the way I describe it to some customers is Cuban box press is just a box press that's been eating too much, it's got a little fat.

16:44 Devin Brackett I like that.

16:46 Devin Brackett That's neat, man. But like that, uh, that a row of 20, I just love that thing. Death. There's something about box press that is more flavorful. And from my personal experience, I've taken cigars that come in normal brown cigars and then done a box press and the flavor is just, it's just better. I can't say it's, it's outstandingly better, but there's just another edge to it, which I know that's kind of ironic because it has edges, but you don't mean like you get that feeling off of it.

17:15 Devin Brackett Sure. Sure. Yeah. Heck yeah, man. And, uh, yeah. And if you box press and Lance arrow, that's you talking about some multi flavor there, buddy, that that's good stuff. And I've yet to be frank with you. It's good point buddy. And that is that I would like to see more box press Lance arrows come out. I really would now. Yeah. I would too. Far as the Lance arrow goes, you're looking at the Toro and the average size, the Toro robusto and Churchill, whatever, uh, you got room for error. You got room for breathing when it comes to rolling of the tobacco and all that kind of stuff. But in this particular case here, the Lance arrow, you hadn't got too much room. So when you box press that thing, man, you better hope that you got a good role on it to where I think can breathe through because if you don't suck in that vein out of your head, man, a box press Lance arrow, I'm a CIO did a Brasilia that, uh, and it was a robusto that Brazilia box present and man, it's still a good seller, still a good seller. And that's robusto. So you can only imagine what a box Lance arrow would do. Yeah. And I think Devin, you bring up a great point there. I would like whoever it may be somebody to, uh, a proprietary or some kind of say, Hey, you need to come out with a box press Lance arrow. I bet that thing was fell off. But Pete Johnson would be the perfect one too.

18:34 Devin Brackett I agree with you on that. Why it makes me think about, uh, speaking of box press is like the cigar that I told the story many times of my first cigar was, uh, Padrone and I started experimenting with Padrone, but the very first one I did was an expensive, it was like a $20 Padrone and it was box press. Now that I think about it and there's just the introduction to cigars. You want to pick the right one, but at the same time, you don't want to go too expensive. Uh, I probably went way too expensive, even though I didn't buy it. The box press is a good place to start. It gets people go in the ergonomics of it. I know this is not typically a subject you talk about, but it's not going to roll on you if you set it down. Oh, and I love that.

19:16 Devin Brackett I know that's simple, stupid, but no, I love that part, man. You're right. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. That's, that's one thing that attracts me to a box press in a sense of other than the flavor of it, you know, or, or the potential flavor of it, right. The is that ergonomics where it holds good, holds good hand and it, uh, it fits a couple of ways in your mouth, which is kind of cool. And then of course it won't roll. And so if you're, you're laying it on a, uh, a flat surface, man, you just lay it there and let it go.

19:45 John Viviani You guys are having that discussion. And of course I'm here doing tons of little things and an upcoming cigar we have on our list to smoke is the Espinoza Murcia Lago. And they actually do offer that cigar in a, uh, Lansero box press. And I'm half tempted. I don't think cigars and more stocks that, but I might see if Harris could get

20:09 Devin Brackett some, or maybe I'll go ahead and lay 50 bucks out and, uh, order a five pack. John, that would be great, dude. Man, that would be so good.

20:21 Devin Brackett Continuing on that path.

20:23 Devin Brackett The, another unspoken hero is the Lansdale. Lonsdale.

20:30 Devin Brackett I haven't really smoked many Lonsdale. I'll be honest with you. It's, it's not in my common repertoire of cigars.

20:35 Devin Brackett In my opinion though, I think Lonsdale is a hidden, I think it's a hidden gym, if you will, and not to mention there ain't a whole lot of folks concentrate on that size, much less the Lansero, but you've got the Lonsdale who, you know, if you start throwing Lonsdale out there, people, you know, that know maybe a little bit about cigars and think they get dangerous with it. You know, start tilting their head like a dog on a high pitch whistle. You know, they sort of say what Lonsdale, same thing with the Rothschild. You start throwing Rothschild out there. They go, uh, wait a minute. Hold. What is that? You know? Uh, but yeah, Lonsdale is a, uh, it's a specialized size, not made by many at all. Um, Ashton is, is very renowned for their Lonsdale. Uh, Ashton classic white cabinet. Um, you know, all of that bunch there. Um, they're very renowned for their Lonsdale size. And I think it's a very good size for that particular stick. You know, it goes back and I'll shut up after this. It goes back to the, um, to, to, to my thinking of what you guys say about, you know, about your one cigar that is rolled for that particular size. They perfect it. And I really think I have to be frank with you. I think that the Ashton classic line is what I literally account classic line. I think that the, uh, the prime minister, uh, that's not the prime minister. Eight, nine, eight, the eight, nine, eight, which is the Lonsdale size. And that, which is the, uh, uh, I literally think that that was their first cigar. I don't know. I don't know. I'll just say, uh, but because they concentrate so much on a Lonsdale size on that particular blend right there, that at least me to believe that was probably a first stick that they made on that very, that's a good point, man. Very hidden. Right.

22:31 John Viviani Uh, I guess, uh, underrated size, if you will, not very heard of at all. John, what's your thoughts on that? I'm not sure on the Lonsdale. It's a neat size. It's, and it's, you know, typically a six and a half by 42, six and a half by 44. Ashton usually goes with the 44 ring gauge. Um, I'm trying to think, uh, the Oliva Connecticut reserve is, uh, I know available in a Lonsdale and I think that's also a 44, but it kind of slots. Just a touch fatter than our good old Lansero, but it's right there in the length because your Lanseros are usually going to be somewhere between about six, six and a half to seven, eight inches or so. Um, I mean, they say Lanseros can be a little bit shorter. And of course there's some half Lanseros out there now too, which are an interesting cigar. Um, I'm, I'm a big fan of the, uh, Lansero and I think the three of us are very

23:42 Devin Brackett unique because Lanseros don't sell. There's not a lot of companies that make Lanseros because they just don't sell. So you're talking Lansero is not Lonsdale, right?

23:55 John Viviani Is that what I'm talking to? Uh, Lanseros, but they're almost the Lonsdale is about the same thing too. Is they, not a lot of people are doing them because they're usually, they want a little, you know, they want a fatter cigar and they want something a little bit more dimensionally appealing again, like Devin's original question. Everybody's thinking of a Toro, which is going to be a six, six or a quarter by 54, 56. So you're, what is that? 10, 60 force, whatever that breaks down to five, 30 seconds of an inch thicker in diameter and a little bit shorter. The size just is what people think. And of course now we're stuck in and the Grandes and the six by 60 is kind of the in size now and everybody wants to smoke one and probably go back and kick Tony Sopranos ass cause that's what he kind of smoked. Tony, if there's one thing you did to this world to hurt it, and that was smoke, that was too thick a cigar. Nevermind all your trash trash company business. Nice. But on the next TV episode of smoking underground, the Sopranos. Well, that's never, nevermind. So it's just not, I'm going to be honest. It's just not a size that appeals too much to me. Even I'm a big Lansero fan, but either ironically it's the exact opposite. Go big or go home. I'm either going to go and get a Lansero and a mint and grab, grab that, you know, 36, a ring gauge, 38 ring gauge cigar and go for it, or I'm going to go ahead and get into my, you know, 52, 54, 56 ring gauge. Uh, just kind of my, my personal there, but I guess you could throw in that and I'm going to jump to a new size. You know, the Corona's I really like the Corona is probably my favorite size right now.

26:09 Devin Brackett I was just about to do that.

26:10 John Viviani A little bit thicker than the Lansero and a sub six inches. It's just a good size. Nice, easy smoke. I mean, I like to sit down and have a cigar for an hour, hour and 10, but this gives me a chance to have two cigars in that hour, hour and 10. Yeah. The, uh, the, the, the Corona, uh, in, in the point, a line is the number four pretty much, and, uh, that was Carlito or Carlos seniors favorite, favorite size. That was what he smoked was the Don Carlos number four, which is that, uh, Corona's. We'll see great minds think alike. True that.

26:58 Devin Brackett Yup. Right. True. Exactly. But yeah, I'm a huge, I'm a, I'm a very big Corona fan and I tell you what I've done, I got a little mini pack of the, uh, Macanudo impressive. Those and, and those right there, the red pack, man, those right there in the cigarette size are just, man, those are good. And that particular size there.

27:26 Devin Brackett John, I completely agree with you about the Corona. Cause I have noticed myself and with customers is that's, that seems to be the size people keep getting more often lately. I had a guy just yesterday, his entire collection that he brought up to the register were all Corona's question.

27:45 John Viviani Do you think that is a preference of the cigar size or a preference of the price point? Both.

27:55 Devin Brackett I want to say it's the price point, uh, because of the quote unquote economy, but I'll be honest with you when you're getting into buying cigars at some point, the price point between the longer one and a Corona size, you're just like, I want to be able to smoke it and enjoy it and be done. So for me, it's, I go to lunch. I want to light something up in my truck and be able to smoke it before I get back. And I've noticed if I do any other size, if I do a robusto tour or anything in my truck, I'll be sitting on the dock at work, finishing up cigar and then sit down and then come back to it and set it up and then go to the store and cigar and then sit down and then come back to it and set it down. But the Corona I've done every time. Um,

28:45 John Viviani I've noticed though, that a lot of people, no matter what the transaction cost is 50 bucks a person, the average sale through the register is $50. And it used to be five cigars. Now it's four cigars and you can get five sometimes if you squeak in that Corona size or you're a little bit, I had some guy come in and he bought almost a box, 20 cigars and he was right. I can't remember what is, I thought he did phenomenal with his, um, purchase price. It was a very, for 20 cigars, it was a great price and they were quality cigars, but it was all because of being very selective in the sizes of the cigars, I think as opposed to, um, I don't know if that was his preference or not for the size, but

29:44 Devin Brackett yeah, as far as the now, as far now, but told was another animal, you know, you, you know, that's another side of town there that, uh, what they want, they're going to get. So as far as the Corona's go over there, uh, they come in and they get what they want, uh, price is pretty much no object over there. You know, so they'll come in and get two, three boxes of their old faithful, whatever it may be, you know, so, uh, the Corona's yeah, they, they, they do sell, but over there it's no, you know, it's not a pick and choose. Okay. Well, let's see, I can afford three of these and then I might pick up two Corona's, which are, you know, uh, $3 less than one of these, you know, so, uh, it's more or less they come in, they get it, they leave and you know, they, they've got what they want.

30:40 John Viviani Hey, you're dealing with, uh, definitely, uh, um, a higher income where you're at in that shop and two 80s, a nice mix. I think of the, you know, the entire scope I get, um, lower it, just lower income, higher income, middle income. You know, it's odd, but I also have noticed in cigars and more and by total fine cigars Harris, who's basically our buyer is not a big fan of her boosts. Everything he orders is a Toro and a 60 and then maybe he'll get to the robusto, but because we carry so many skews, he's, he can't carry the entire line and every size. He can't carry the three sizes of the entire line. And I think he's a little bit more partial to, okay, we've got the Toros, we've got the sixties and I don't want to, you know, everybody goes robusto. I think he orders a few more of the Corona size things because it's different and that's the different size to give you instead of just being, you know, like the Walmart of cigars, you know, 60 Toro and a, a robusto he's sitting right there and he's enjoying the little unique factor. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't say, um, and so many, I'm finding also so many cigar companies are just deciding to name their cigar, whatever they, how they feel like for a size and that's getting to be.

32:26 Devin Brackett It is, isn't it? And that is also another conversation is, uh, is that right there is what you just said is that whenever you start going out of the standard of the cigar line or the Vatola line, you know, that's, that is the, that gets a very old and very, uh, cumbersome, you know, especially from a retail standpoint and especially from the clerical standpoint, very much so, you know, but it's all about marketing though. It's all about marketing. If you can, if you can mislabel something or throw a different curve ball and somebody said, Oh, I hadn't ever heard of that.

33:10 John Viviani Uh, well then that's the job, you know? So, yeah, it's like, um, see CLE Christian Arroa, you know, he's famous for his 1118, which is kind of a Toro, but technically an 1118 isn't a straight cigar. It's got a kind of special figurado bulbs out in the, a little bit in the middle. And he's also different in that if you pay attention to Christian, everybody is a four and a half by, by 50, 54, 50, or a six by 60 or whatever. When it's an Arroa product, whether it be CLE Asylum, it's a 60 by six, a 48 by seven things like he reverses the numbers. And so you can usually tell it's one of his products. And I believe when he rolls for somebody else, he keeps the same numbering system.

34:10 Devin Brackett So if you're in the know, you know, it's him rolling it and not, right. Right. Yeah.

34:17 John Viviani I'll agree with that. Kind of like what we're we saying earlier with, um, somebody make, oh, placentia making the cigar we're smoking this evening, the Romeo, who we had it. You don't know it unless you know it. But if they use that reverse size system, you would know, um, you know, if Arroa was rolling it for them, they would call that a 50 by five, not a five by 50. Yeah.

34:43 Devin Brackett Um, you know, for today's, uh, for today. Yeah. Well, for the, for today is actually really good at that. Well, their specialty line of their Opus X. Yeah. Because I mean, you got, uh, you know, you got, uh, black Rose and you have BBMF, um, uh, and all of that stuff right there. They throw on that. All of that is, uh, you know, totally different when it comes to the, their, their, uh, their specialty line. Now, you know, none of that labeled anything regular.

35:14 John Viviani Here's a little secret. Um, that whole line is all marketing.

35:19 Devin Brackett Oh, well, yeah, it always has always has been. Yeah. Especially the, uh, the holding of the inventory. Yeah. They, they market, they cornered that whole inventory off to where people wanted it so bad and would probably pay any price and go anywhere and do that, you know, they've done that. So, yeah. So I've been impressed with their marketing and they've, they've grown because of it.

35:44 John Viviani Yeah. I think, I think cigars and more of I told her has played that game long enough though, because I've noticed, even though there was supposedly going to be a shortage of the last year, we've done a really good job as a shop or the family shops of almost consistently always having some opus product, maybe not five or six, but at least one opus product on the shelf. So maybe we've built up to that point that they allow us to have something at all times. So I'm thinking about the next one we should discuss if we're on, if we're ready to discuss the next, the next size, not in the next size up, but something, something different. Yeah. Well, we've been, we've been waiting for you to get all calm and join us. We've just kind of been treading water here.

36:44 Devin Brackett Oh, I appreciate that. I've, I've had, I've had some issues, but let's see. So I want to think. You had some issues? I want to, I want to take a drastic swing in the opposite direction and talk

36:58 Devin Brackett about the Churchill and the reason this one is the way it is. I mean, the name in it, the name of the size is historical. Well, very much so. The Churchill normally, uh, the church, of course, is a custom size. It was made by Churchill himself. The original size from Romeo Giulietta, which was his original type line was a Clemencia size. Clemencia size was, uh, ironically enough was a, uh, lawn snail type size. It was relatively, it was a little thinner, if you will, and, uh, not that long. And that was his size. And he basically just ordered because of his power, they could do that. And he basically said, Hey, listen, I don't think it's a little thicker, a little longer, and therein was the birth of Churchill. And that was, uh, that was the deal. Yeah. And, uh, and he made that he was, uh, Churchill was, uh, was one of those, if you will, George burns type smokers that would go 20 cigars a day, 15 a day, whatever his wife actually made him a fireproof bib where he could smoke in bed. And literally, uh, his cigar would not, yeah, cigar would fall out of his mouth and fall on his bib and it wouldn't burn him and it wouldn't burn up the bed. And, uh, after he would wake up, he would notice a cigar is laying on his belly, which is a probably a little bit bigger than mine and, uh, intake it. And of course, put it over to the side and roll over and go to sleep. Uh, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's a, it's a, uh, iconic, um, size. And I never thought it would take over like it did, but yeah. And then of course, you know, now you've got your double Corona now, which is even longer, you know? And, uh, so I don't know who did, I don't know, to be honest with you, I don't know who come up with double Corona, but they're, they're crazy. You know, then you got this. I've smoked them before. It's crazy. It's getting on up there. I mean, you gotta have some time for that thing right there. Um, you know,

39:11 Devin Brackett Oh, I want to, I want to do a shout out because I think I need to get the blueprints for this bib and make it Marvin. Uh, at trust field because he's always falling asleep with his head back. With his cigar and he wakes up and I'm like, you know, what's, let's make him a bit, let's get it monogram.

39:35 Devin Brackett It's good idea for more. That would be great for him. It really would. Yeah.

39:40 Devin Brackett Right. So I don't know if this one's on the list, but I wanted to do it as a comparison, a, well, maybe the brother to the Churchill. Uh, I'm not, might pronounce this incorrectly, but the, uh, DIA, the male size, it's like, it's basically like a figure.

40:02 John Viviani You jump into the DMA a little bit too quick because you do know that church Churchill actually smoked double Corona's. That was kind of his preferred size until he modified it to the other double.

40:20 Devin Brackett Yeah. The double Corona's was not that big though. And he, he customized it. Yeah. And now nowadays the Churchill wasn't even the Churchill is now a shorter size

40:31 John Viviani now, so yeah, the original church hills for Churchill were seven to eight inches or so, and now a Churchill is like seven and a half. And I think there's what seven and a half by 54, 56. Yeah. Because there you go. Something like that. Yeah. Cause originally it was like a 44 to 52. So it's, it worked its way up and he kind of customized it, but originally hit his, uh, his preference was a, a Cuban, uh, from Romeo Julieta that was in what was a double Corona size. As far as 30 cigar sizing. So just wanted to touch a little bit that we were talking about that

41:15 Devin Brackett double Corona and Churchill got into that. The original size was called Clemencia though. That was the original size that was modified off of that. Then it may went to a double Corona and then it went to a Churchill possibly, but the original size of Clemencia that's a per se cigar fishnado.

41:33 John Viviani And then again, of course, Davidoff pays a fortune to have their Winston Churchill line. Oh boy. Just like, just like Fuente pays a fortune to have their Hemingway line. Which is, yeah, but that's a good stick. And just remember the best seller from Fuente and the short story are still Hemingway's, but they got smart by that point and just didn't put the name on the box.

41:59 Devin Brackett Now you can jump into your DIA DEMAs there, Devin. So the DIA DEMA is an interesting, uh, take on a cigar cause it's fits in that figurado line, but it's, I just call it like the, uh, the Churchill that, you know, it's got a little bit more edge to it. It's a little bit pointier. It's it's figurado. It's it's tapered on both ends and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's pointier. It's, it's figurado. It's, it's tapered on both ends. And that gets me into the topic of not just the size, but like what we've talked about in the past where the certain size made for a certain thing creates a certain flavor, even if you use the same tobacco at different sizes. I would love to try, which I've never actually done a taste test between a cigar made in a Churchill and then the same exact cigar in the DIA DEMAs. Like what would be the flavor change? What would be the drastic nature of everything going along with it?

43:02 John Viviani Well, it's like any, it's like any cigar, every, no matter how many sizes or shapes or whatever, every cigar has a perfect size. Sometimes it's a Robusto is perfect for it. Sometimes it's a Churchill. Sometimes it's a Toro. In my opinion, the Davidoff Nicaragua is absolutely the best in the DIA DEMA closely followed by the Toro box press. And we spoke about box presses earlier, but it's, it's that precision role. And I think that's what makes the DIA DEMA a little bit better than most cigars. You always have a more experienced roller doing it. It's the experience. And it's kind of like I say, when you pay more for a cigar, you're paying for consistency and the, you know, I guess the roller, the labor that went into producing that and the DIA DEMA kind of fits that it's a look, you know, it's a little bit more complicated than just, you know, rolling your Robusto.

44:04 Devin Brackett Yeah. And it makes me think of the Alfonso because like we tried the small Alfonso. It was a, we tried the one or the two. I think it was the two and you definitely, I've tried the Alfonso in the larger gauge or the larger length. I like the smaller one better. It's just, it seems more packed with flavor. I don't know. I just liked the smaller one better than the longer one. I think it comes down to the char that gets pulled through the tube.

44:34 John Viviani We smoked the three and a half. I think the four and a half is the best size. I have done the eight and the nine and I don't like those as much as the shorter,

44:43 Devin Brackett but lots of luck finding those now because. And that was the, one of the reasons we wanted to discuss the sizing on that is so anybody listening gets the understanding of the tube that you're pulling smoke through and you're pulling that smoke and the char and the smoke, it's all building up where you're pulling on it. And when you're smaller, obviously it's going to be less that pulls through it. So you're going to get a lack of flavor change, the smaller it is compared to a longer one and that's not to say one's better than the other, it's to say they're different and you've got to find the preference that you like the most. Cause I speak, I think of a ROA obviously, cause I keep speaking of them because it's one of my favorite sticks. It's my go-to. It's my, I know I'm going to enjoy it no matter what and I'm going to enjoy it no matter what size because they do that. The shorter one, I'm going to get the compact flavor, the longer one, it's going to change by the end of it. And that can be said for any brand and any cigar, there is the cigar brand that shall not be named where it doesn't really matter what the size is. It's going to start out okay. And it's going to end kind of weird, but that's just my personal preference.

46:02 Devin Brackett Yeah. As far as your, uh, DMA goes, I was, uh, I was holding this up to the camera just a second ago, letting the guy see it. So you see it, how it's rolled and the shape of it. And of course, you know, that's, uh, that, that particular shape right there is going to give you probably the most complex, probably the most contrast in a flavor than you can get out of any cigar, you know, and I, I could, I sort of, uh, how would you say, uh, I sort of applaud, uh, Fuente. And of course in their Hemingway line, because their Hemingway line is nothing but a small straight DMA is all it is. The perfecto. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And they've done so good. The particular line I've got right here is a Cuban line. It's called coaba, but, uh, but this, this particular line here is also, uh, it's relatively milder. Uh, it's in the milder line like the Bolivar would be. And so in this particular case here, this one right here, this particular one right here is aged actually about 21 years, uh, and, and, uh, in, in this, uh, in that particular shape right there, you're going to get a ton of flavor at the bang of it because it ain't nothing but wrapper and binder. And then it follows up to the wrapper. And then it follows up to the wrapper. I mean, until the, until the filler. And then when that happens, man, oh man, then everything starts changing. And of course, as the cigar goes down, it's smaller in size. So when you start getting smaller in diameter, it goes down almost like, um, if you will, a funnel shape, you know, as it goes down, or just about to say that. Yeah. Or a cheroot shaped, you know, then that's what you're looking at there. And man, you got some killer flavors that come about in some of those things right there that, that, that to me is one of the best lines out there. Or one of the best sizes out there is the DMA, the special figure, right? I don't like the, uh, um, if you will, like the work of art and the short story, those are a little old BD DMAs is all they are, you know, and, and they are there phenomenal as far as flavor goes. Um, Griffin makes a great line of that as well in their perfectos, you know, the perfectos I'm a big perfecto nut. Um, I love that, but yeah, the DMAs to me is a perfect, in my opinion, is one of the most expensive rolling lines out there. You're going to pay more for a DMA than you are any other shape or Vitola out there, you know, but it's probably got the most complex flavor of any of them either. You know, so,

48:49 Devin Brackett and you know, that led me to a question in my head about, are there any sizes or shapes that are just gimmicky that aren't really conducive to anything that don't do anything? And it made me think of, I cannot remember the name of it, but it's something like where they take the cigars and they bind two of them together and they do something like that.

49:13 Devin Brackett I forget the name. Call it Calibra, Calibra or Calibre. And it made me think, does that actually do anything? Or is that just because I've never, mainly made, it was, it was originally made for thievery in the factories is what it was originally made for. Rowers would literally get these coming from the owner or the proprietor of that particular, you know, line or whatever to smoke. So therefore, if they had anything of, if they were smoking a regular size,

49:47 Devin Brackett they knew that those, that regular size was taken out of turn. And so, yeah. And so that's, that's what the D'Ademo was originally made for on that right there. Do we know anybody who sells that?

50:03 Devin Brackett We used to actually, Davidoff used to, used to sell what they call a Siri C. Uh, in the Siri C was a Calibre line and it was quite, quite elaborate. They did it good. Um, and I can't remember which line it was. I can't remember what blend it was in. It was Siri C. So that means Siri R. So that means, uh, Siri R would probably be in the robusto line. So it'd probably be the anniversary series, probably in that particular blend. So, yeah, but yeah, the Siri C. Jonathan Nelson, which is the Oliva rep for this particular area. Yeah. He used to have quite a few of those. And when, uh, when Davidoff had those, but I haven't seen, I haven't seen those lately. I don't know where, I don't know where you would get, I'm sure you,

50:56 Devin Brackett you know, you could find them, but I just don't know where. Well, that would be, that would lead my question is to, is it worth your time? Is the flavor drastically different? Is it something? I mean, what's the point of it at this, at this juncture in history? What's the point of it in a retail?

51:15 Devin Brackett Novelty in your everyday buy. It's a, the size of it is, if you will, like, um, Lancero that's, that's about the original size of it. This curled up is odd smoking it because it's almost staring at you, you know? Um, but, uh, but nevertheless, it's yeah, it's pretty cool line. It's a, it's, it's a cool novelty though. It used to be a big thing back then when cigar smokers, when the cigar boom hit, uh, back in the mid nineties, all the way up to the early two thousands, man, people would love those things. Had a guy by the name of Felipe Gregorio, Felipe Gregorio back in the early night, uh, back in the early two thousands, he was big into the DOS Kappa, trace Kappa, quad Kappa and all of that stuff and making them very pretty. And lay in his was a collectible type line at that time, but it was more of a novelty, the flavor was good, but it wasn't over the top. And so quality literally outdone him over years. He actually come in two 81 time and I dropped, I like to feed on myself because I mean, I really enjoyed his line. I thought his line was a keystone line, uh, or cornerstone line or other S. Uh, and when he come in and he said, yeah, my name is Felipe and I'm selling cigars and I said, Philippe, uh, the only flip a note that, uh, that sells cigars was Gregorio and he was back in the early two thousands. He said, that is me. And I said, oh my God, man. Wow. Me, it was like Mickey mountain walking into the store. You know, it was like, wow, dude, you were the man at that time. Cause you could roll the best role. They were beautiful. They were gorgeous cigars. Now it's more about quality. And, and nowadays it's about value. You know, unfortunately that's what happens. You know, I'm waiting for our next cigar boom to hit. When it does, those things would probably come back.

53:11 Devin Brackett Thinking about it now, it makes me think, why would you ever buy that? But the more we talk about it, the more history we have for it.

53:19 Devin Brackett I honestly want one now. I want to try it. Yeah.

53:23 Devin Brackett Just to, just to see what it's all about, because one day I'd like to have one of those big, tall humidor's in my house. You know, like a curio cabinet, that's a humidor have it lined up. And then I would like to have a few of those sitting in there and smoke them every once in a while. I mean, I can see the novelty behind it, especially if they're not bad. If they're not like, no, you don't want to smoke one of those. They're not really that good. If they're decent and they're a novelty, I could see me sitting on the porch. You know, buddy's hanging out drinking and I popped this thing out there. What the heck are you smoking?

53:58 Devin Brackett Yeah. Never seen one before. Of course it's three cigars rolled up. Find a, as a braid, if you will, into, into almost a one cigar type thing there with a, with two ties on the foot and the, and the head of it. And, uh, and that's, that's what it, that's what it looks like. But, and of course, you know, you break it open and of course you got two guys you're smoking with, you hand them, you know, the other two and you enjoy the smoke and of course you enjoy that particular comradery at that time with that particular, you know, that particular novelty in my opinion. But yeah, I mean, but Davidoff, that thing was good. It was good, son. It really was really good. Um, but yes, it just, again, you know, time changes and next thing you know, you got Tomazooka that comes out and says, what the Calibre? No, it was called a femur. Yeah. And that, that, yeah. And what, what, what would you call the April fools? Uh, you know, you, you Dennis Latham, which is one of our guys that used to come in quite often and I hadn't seen Dennis and I don't know how long Dennis would get all of this stuff, if you will, or the majority of it, you know, and he would smoke that stuff and he would take pictures and, and post it on, you know, he descended out through social media. And at that particular time, it was like my space or something like that. But, uh, but yeah, he'd smoke that stuff, man, it posts that crap and you're going good grief, dude, how are you doing it? Even, uh, Oliva makes a double gigante, you know, which is, I think 10, what is it, John 10 by seven 70 by, I think 70 by 10, I think it is something like that.

55:44 John Viviani I just don't pay attention to those.

55:46 Devin Brackett Yeah. Right.

55:47 John Viviani Huge sizes. I mean, they're, yeah, I mean the April fools, what do I use it for? The guy goes, I want the biggest cigar you got. So you show them the, and they go, Oh, no, no, I don't, I don't quite want that. They laugh about it. And every now and then they walk out with one.

56:03 Devin Brackett Definitely different.

56:04 Devin Brackett Yeah. I think we've gone through a bunch of sizes. There's a bunch of them in between and things we can do.

56:11 Devin Brackett You know, you got Toro, Robusto, Churchill, things like that. We could do 10 episodes on sizes and, and you couldn't finish it. Agreed, John.

56:23 John Viviani I mean, just even if you just go to the Churchill, I mean, just the Churchill itself, is it, you know, a 44 or 47, a 48, a 52, is it six inches, six and a half seven? I mean, just, I mean, they're all approximates anymore. Some are styles. Some are over intensity of smoking. Our old host of this show behind the curtain, Jason Robinette always said this, the reason behind a cigar size is the length of time that you have to enjoy it.

56:59 Devin Brackett And I still go by that, even though most people go with, it just feels good in my mouth. We really hope you guys got something from this. We recommend you look it up. You can type in a cigar shapes and just look up the images of it. It would behoove you. That's the word of the day. Behoove you to look them up, know the difference between a few of them. And then try them out. Try out one of your favorite sticks. Like when we were talking about the Lanzaro, all I could think of was the Oliva V Lanzaro, which is an absolutely stunning cigar. And most people love Oliva V from the box press to the Toro's, to the Robusto. But there's one guy in particular at the shop that he gets the Lanzaro of it all the time. And I recommend you try it out. If you look, if you see a name for a shape and size that you haven't heard of, go look for it in the shop. Find that shape and then get the opposite of it. And there you go. You got two sticks. You get to try and you try them back to back, especially if you're sitting in the shop. I know a lot of guys, they'll smoke, you know, two, three cigars. Try a different size of the same one you just got, just to have a different dichotomy of it, a different, a different flow, a different flavor to see what you catch on it. Cause you're going to catch a bunch of similar notes, but you're going to catch something different. And you got the time base on it as well, as John and Ol Pitted Prunes was telling us way back in the day. With that being said, I want to make sure everybody knows you can always head to our website, smokingunderground.com. And see all the links we have available. You can see our podcast or show what we're doing. And you remember the best thing you can do for us, share it, tell somebody, just link it over one, one episode, especially somebody new. They walk into the shop and you're like, Hey, he's got a smartphone because I don't want to sound too pretentious, which I don't think I am. But most people have got smartphones now. They've got really expensive computers in their pocket. They're probably, if they don't listen to podcasts already, they listen to something. Usually music shoot them a link to the podcast, especially ones like this, where we kind of do educational on that. We're going through a series right now, specifically for that. And I would highly recommend just drop a line to somebody else.

59:29 Devin Brackett Roger that. Yeah, please do. Yeah. And we want to hear, we want to hear from you too. I mean, email us please. You know, what, what you drinking? What are you, what are you smoking? What do you want to hear about? That's a, that's also a heavy topic too. You know, anytime you got any suggestions, man, we can, we love that stuff. So please do that. May we'll be, that would be great for us. You know, any type topic.

59:52 John Viviani I'm always checked in. I'm always reading the emails replying. We can have a little bit of back and forth there. Uh, we're working on a couple of more ideas for the podcast. Everything's changing. The numbers are looking stellar. And it's great to hear those of you come into the shop and bring up the podcast to us where we don't have to bring it up to you. That's pro that really, really makes my day. Yeah. It's, it's taken us a while to get there. And this Romeo Julietta, even though it's been out for years, pick one up. It's like I said, it's a, uh, $10 placentia.

01:00:35 Devin Brackett And placentia nowadays, man, they have stepped their game up, son. They have made big shoes to feel now. Wow, man, they're coming with a vengeance. Remind me of Alec Bradley, Alec Bradley back in the, uh, early 2000s, early 19, not late 1990s, uh, you know, everybody was about the same and Alec Bradley come out, did great, then did crappy and man, he'd come back with a vengeance next thing you know, we sells and God, John, what'd he get for his business? I don't know. Something stupid. I know that.

01:01:14 John Viviani Oh, it was re I can't remember. It was ridiculous, ridiculous money, but believe it or not, it made a whole bunch of people happy because all of a sudden Perdomo is a billion dollar company with the valuation. I want to say it was $73 billion or $73 billion. $73 million.

01:01:34 Devin Brackett Does his hand. Alan Robbin now can, can go and do what he wants to now. You know, so good for him though. He earned it. He did.

01:01:44 John Viviani Part of the fun is building the business.

01:01:47 Devin Brackett Yep. There you go.

01:01:48 Devin Brackett Right. Well, um, look forward to, uh, look forward to, uh, catching us next week. We have another great topic to kind of dive in deep and get some good Gary stories to go along that we don't have anything else. I think we'll close out and I appreciate everybody listening. Keep downloading, keep sharing, and we'll see you on the next exciting adventure. Thank you, Gary. And thank you, John.

01:02:16 Devin Brackett Thank y'all very much. Good job, John. As usual, I appreciate all that you do, buddy. Really do.

01:02:21 John Viviani Nope. Thank you. Thank you. All the listeners and stop by.